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Author	Topic: If Congress votes to recind the PPACA..	Post a Reply Back to Topics

btc1 Champion Author Lexington Posts:18,038 Points:798,450 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 5:14:50 AM Ignore btc1 Report Abuse If they do will it be the death nell for Romney.. I think it would.

btc1

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Lexington

Posts:18,038
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Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 5:14:50 AM

Ignore btc1 Report Abuse

If they do will it be the death nell for Romney..

I think it would.

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btc1 Champion Author Lexington Posts:18,038 Points:798,450 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Jul 3, 2012 10:27:39 AM Ignore btc1 Report Abuse Yeah, go ahead and repeal it. Then explain to America why you want to reduce the deficit and increase it at the same time! "Second, repealing health-care reform would also entail rolling back scheduled tax increases and fees. For example, individuals making over $200,000, and couples making over $250,000, face higher Medicare Part A (that’s hospital insurance) taxes under Obama’s health reforms. Their Part A tax rate is supposed to go up 0.9 percent on January 1, 2013. That’s a big money raiser, estimated to bring in $210 billion between 2013 and 2019. And it would be eliminated if the health care reform law is repealed. So would planned fees levied on insurers, medical device manufacturers, and others. Whether one is pro-PPACA or pro-repeal, the numbers are the numbers. Further, it is clear that (at least symbolically, since this is all going nowhere), the GOP values repeal over deficit reduction. That is, actually, quite fair as politics requires tradeoffs. However, it is yet another example (two more that come to mind are here and here) that there appears to be a chasm between the GOP’s rhetoric on fiscal policy and their reality." Rescinding it reduces taxes on the upper incomes, but, again increases the Federal deficit. Again the GOP only cares about taxes on the wealthy. They will not allow it. Less than 1% and they hate it! [Edited by: btc1 at 7/3/2012 1:29:21 PM EST]
BlackGumTree Champion Author Virginia Posts:18,439 Points:1,459,665 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Jul 3, 2012 8:51:27 AM Ignore BlackGumTree Report Abuse The problem now is for the Democrats to rescind it without voting to do so and they don't have enough Democrats in the House. If they don't rescind it, they will have to face the Elections in November.
btc1 Champion Author Lexington Posts:18,038 Points:798,450 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Jul 3, 2012 6:15:54 AM Ignore btc1 Report Abuse theTower, the CBO shows it as reducing the deficit right now. To rescind the PPACA the Republicans will have to have Mitt in the White House and 51 votes in the Senate. IF they manage that, then, they will have to enact "Reconciliation", the very thing they railed against as wrong when the Democrats used it to pass PPACA. So they will be saying it is only right when we do it. Then rescinding the PPACA will reverse the act of reducing the deficit and raise it. Getting everyone covered by health insurance is a cost savings whether you choose to recognize that or not. [Edited by: btc1 at 7/3/2012 9:17:47 AM EST]
EZExit Champion Author Phoenix Posts:10,747 Points:1,735,355 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2012 9:13:38 PM Ignore EZExit Report Abuse Marty understands... "How is healthcare insurance purchased by individuals "free"?" Yep, you're right, it will cause each family currently uninsured to buy a policy estimated at $4500-$5000 per year, or be subject to a tax of $2,085 per year. Each family will be literally forced to spend a minimum of the $2,085 tax. Or, translated, it increases each family's expense by at least that much per year. This is in addition to the other changes to tax rates this new law is implementing that will also cost these same families more money.
theTower Champion Author Indiana Posts:13,357 Points:479,920 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2012 7:49:07 PM Ignore theTower Report Abuse ".. increase the deficit, since the PPACA will reduce it......" •ROTFLOL• you really believe that dont you? I'm not sure what's worse. Obama Care or the people who believe it's the solution to the deficit crisis.
BlackGumTree Champion Author Virginia Posts:18,439 Points:1,459,665 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2012 7:00:48 PM Ignore BlackGumTree Report Abuse Chief Justice John Roberts has made PPACA toxic. Doses with be dispensed to all liberals. Take your medicine! Drink up!
btc1 Champion Author Lexington Posts:18,038 Points:798,450 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2012 4:15:03 PM Ignore btc1 Report Abuse ...They will increase the deficit, since the PPACA will reduce it.
MiddletownMarty Champion Author Connecticut Posts:17,747 Points:272,335 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2012 2:48:28 PM Ignore MiddletownMarty Report Abuse "Worry: "It is beyond me how people don't understand that increasing the number of insureds puts the brakes on increasing premiums" Worry didn't say that; I did. He has better looking legs. "Huh? Load the system with more people demanding "covered" services and the premiums go down? " How is requiring that everyone purchase insurance equal to loading the system with more people demanding covered services? Insurance is all about shared risk. Increase the number of insured individuals and the risk decreases. "To be clear, the so-called 40 million who are currently uninsured because they can't afford it will likely be fully tax payer subsidized." We don't know that all 40 million are uninsured because they can't afford it, do we? "Demand for services with their new "free healthcare" demand will be staggering." How is healthcare insurance purchased by individuals "free"? "Those who pay their premiums will see the increase every January." We saw that before the PPACA, but now there's the requirement that insurance companies spend at least 80% of each premium dollar to deliver actual healthcare services. What a concept! "vote Democrat or Republicans will take away your healthcare" That's the message Republicans are sending. If Republicans don't like it, let them change the message. "Voila, Democrats are elected for life because 60% of voters don't want to lose their full healthcare subsidy." There's always compromise, if Republicans will allow themselves to engage in it. [Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 7/2/2012 5:50:41 PM EST]
EZExit Champion Author Phoenix Posts:10,747 Points:1,735,355 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2012 2:38:27 PM Ignore EZExit Report Abuse I don't know what you are all worried about, look at social security! The government has proven itself time and time again that they run a streamlined social security department. Look at the US budget! They have a proven track record that they are fiscally responsible, always balanced with extra money in reserve for a rainy day. sarcastic smile
e_jeepin Champion Author Michigan Posts:3,876 Points:123,170 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2012 2:31:35 PM Ignore e_jeepin Report Abuse Worry: "It is beyond me how people don't understand that increasing the number of insureds puts the brakes on increasing premiums" Huh? Load the system with more people demanding "covered" services and the premiums go down? To be clear, the so-called 40 million who are currently uninsured because they can't afford it will likely be fully tax payer subsidized. Demand for services with their new "free healthcare" demand will be staggering. Rates will skyrocket because Uncle Sam will pay it. Those who pay their premiums will see the increase every January. Democrats blame "greedy insurance companies" (if they are still around by then). This was the plan from the beginning. This isn't about healthcare, it's about handing out candy to gain votes -- "vote Democrat or Republicans will take away your healthcare". Voila, Democrats are elected for life because 60% of voters don't want to lose their full healthcare subsidy. Slippery slope folks, it is easy to predict this
plastic Champion Author Virginia Posts:46,989 Points:2,864,700 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2012 11:49:00 AM Ignore plastic Report Abuse Here's an interesting tidbit... So we're actually going to get our tax money back if we buy health insurance? More of us are now considered "poor" as recipients of the wealth redistribution. It is a tax increase on the job creators and a redistribution of wealth. This can still hurt jobs and I don't see how it's going to help the true poor (ie the entry-level military members and dependants).
plastic Champion Author Virginia Posts:46,989 Points:2,864,700 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2012 9:28:25 AM Ignore plastic Report Abuse >"Thanks for becoming the forum police. Yes, I get it." C2b, just because I post straight logic and fact doesn't make me the forum police. Only Gasbuddy employees can be forum police. I'm sorry if facts make you feel like you've been put into place. I like truth and fact and I don't care from which side it comes. For instance, worryfree made a pretty good point in response to our conversation. Unfortunately, even though he may be 100% correct, it is of negligible consequence in the grand scheme of the new law.
BlackGumTree Champion Author Virginia Posts:18,439 Points:1,459,665 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2012 5:36:18 AM Ignore BlackGumTree Report Abuse If Congress votes to rescind the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) they will be doing the will of the electorate and Obama will be politically dead along with a lot of fellow liberals. The Congress will then need to work on what the electorate does want.
smooth7984 Champion Author Columbus Posts:8,712 Points:1,418,975 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Jul 1, 2012 6:17:43 AM Ignore smooth7984 Report Abuse I don't think anyone is arguing about whether or not people should have health insurance. The issue at stake is who is paying for it. Expanding Medicaid to cover low income people really does suck any and all available resources out of the system. When states mandate car insurance, they don't mandate that the state will pay for it if you cannot afford it. They say you have to have it or else.
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:23,162 Points:1,037,445 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 8:42:26 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse Rumble - here we lump liability into car insurance - thats what its called down here. Regardless of what terms you give it did you get the point of what I was trying to say. You cant get or expect more insurance coverage whithout higher premiums for the insurance. If you get more product someone has to pay. btc yes we all want free everything too. I would liek to get health insurance for free that pays for everything down to an including the asprin I take for a headache. But if I get more and or better insurnace its gonna cost someone. The insurance companies are not in business to give you stuff any more than you get free tax preparation from H&R Block. As far as my mom went - the biggest effect of Obamacare was that the company she retired from said that as of the first of next year they were no longer going to participate in the health insurance plas as they had been. They would give each retiree a small payment and they could go buy it where ever they wanted to. The next year the employees would get the same. The stated reason was that with the increased expenses cause from government regulations and changes in insurance mandated by the govt it was no longer cost effective for them to participate. You make up your own mind on it. Yo can discount it or say it isnt so but I have handled her finances for a few years now and thats what the papers I have say. If you wish to keep on thinking there is a free lunch be my guest.
btc1 Champion Author Lexington Posts:18,038 Points:798,450 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 8:10:10 PM Ignore btc1 Report Abuse fly, "btc I said "provide more coverage". That refered to the amount of things covered per person. Like kids till 26, must cover preexisting, no lifetime limits etc." Many, many parents love that idea of keeping their kids on until they are 26. And many like my niece(who was in healthcare before disabled and hates PPACA as much as you) and I bet your mother like the idea of covering pre-existing conditions. So many, that many insurance companies have said they would continue to offer these terms even IF PPACA were found un-constitutional. So I guess, the actuaries looked at those and approved them with or without the PPACA. Not a big enough cost or risk to abandon. [Edited by: btc1 at 6/30/2012 11:11:14 PM EST]
rumbleseat Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:23,065 Points:3,550,080 Joined:Oct 2002	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 8:54:45 PM Ignore rumbleseat Report Abuse "Ask what the cost to insure your car will be if yo just get the minimum your state requires. Then ask what it will cost if you get collision, comprehensive, replacement cost for loss and up the limits on your liability and so forth to say a milllion dollars." A little unfair comparison. State minimum coverage is NOT car insurance. it is liability coverage for damage you may do to property and persons, there is no coverage for you or your car, and state minimum is actually pretty crappy liability coverage as well. In most cases it wouldn't even cover somebody else's expensive car if you managed to write it off. To make a fair comparison at the health care level you would have to find a premium that covered only treatment for injuries you caused others, and/or possibly disease you passed on to them through sneezing, not washing your hands, etc, no coverage for you at all.
worryfree Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:24,017 Points:1,892,190 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 8:26:01 PM Ignore worryfree Report Abuse "Actually that's not true, c2b. If someone can afford health care and go to the hospital, they still get billed. There are no free rides. Those, who can't afford it, get their bill paid by the government. Those who can afford it have to pay it or face collections." Plastic-you and I fund the government that pays for the uninsured. And the ER care is much more expensive than care in a doctors office for the insured.
AC-302 Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:26,845 Points:2,928,295 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 8:01:50 PM Ignore AC-302 Report Abuse Topic: If Congress votes to recind the PPACA.. --Then the Republicans will win the election. But fear not. The Dems may also rescind quite a lot of it when they find they cannot fund, nor enforce much of it. And what happens when insurance prices go up so that nobody can afford insurance anymore?
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:23,162 Points:1,037,445 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 4:07:39 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse btc I said "provide more coverage". That refered to the amount of things covered per person. Like kids till 26, must cover preexisting, no lifetime limits etc. More peopel covered may or may not change how much each person pays - it depends on other things. But tell you what if you still dont believe me go on down to your car insurance person. Ask what the cost to insure your car will be if yo just get the minimum your state requires. Then ask what it will cost if you get collision, comprehensive, replacement cost for loss and up the limits on your liability and so forth to say a milllion dollars. See if the extra coverage is free. YOu just keep on believing the liberal pablum that Obamacare is great stuff. I suppose that you still believe that CRA had no effects except more people got home loans too.
ministorage Champion Author Louisville Posts:9,220 Points:818,995 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 3:36:37 PM Ignore ministorage Report Abuse The law of unintended consequences strikes again.
ministorage Champion Author Louisville Posts:9,220 Points:818,995 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 3:29:42 PM Ignore ministorage Report Abuse Topic: "If Congress votes to recind the PPACA.." ...the damage is already done. When insurance companies pulled Individual policy coverage out of states over the past two years, the effect was that individual policy holders with preexisting conditions had to scramble, to apply with remaining available Individual polices in their respective states--and pay higher premiums. If they were not turned down because of their pre-existings, they have been left with the option to pay sky-high premiums for their new polices, or go without and wait for Obamacare. None of the cheerleaders for PPACA, who talk of compassion for the uninsured, seems to give a rat fink's ass for those who were paying into the system faithfully, who had coverage, reasonable premiums, and who had the rug pulled out from under them. I feel your compassion. IMHO [Edited by: ministorage at 6/29/2012 6:34:42 PM EST]
c2bravo Champion Author Indiana Posts:2,242 Points:114,035 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 2:43:25 PM Ignore c2bravo Report Abuse Plastic Thanks for becoming the forum police. Yes, I get it.
btc1 Champion Author Lexington Posts:18,038 Points:798,450 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 2:30:26 PM Ignore btc1 Report Abuse fly, you do understand actuaries right? The more you cover does not mean it will cost more. Young people go without coverage most often. So they will be covered but not use it as much. But, there will be by volume more income for the company. Now this would work much better with universal healthcare, but, it will still apply here for the most part. And I bet there will be more of those youngsters catching on to "wellness" care. So in the long run, no, the costs will not increase that much. fly, I have dentures. ;) [Edited by: btc1 at 6/29/2012 5:31:44 PM EST]
EZExit Champion Author Phoenix Posts:10,747 Points:1,735,355 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 2:20:36 PM Ignore EZExit Report Abuse The way I understand it, there are lots of new taxes in the ObamaCare monstrosity. Everyone knows and agrees that the healthcare system needs to be fixed, the disagreement is in how it is fixed. Romney, again, as I understand, wants to replace the train wreck with a better planned and thought out version, one that will not tax people into oblivion, one that will not kill jobs (I am keeping my company employee count under 50 :) ), one that all representatives of the people can know and understand BEFORE voting on it, and one that does not grow the IRS into a much larger government entity. On a side note, creating thousands of jobs at the IRS is not what I believe the people have in mind when considering job creation.
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:23,162 Points:1,037,445 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 2:12:53 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse Plastic - try here.... So tell me agian btc how making all insurance companies provide more coverage regardless of how many people they cover will result in lower costs. I have this strange idea that if yo have to cover more expenses per person you will have to pay more somehow. Tell me I am wrong and tell me that the tooth fairy will come tomorrow too will you.
plastic Champion Author Virginia Posts:46,989 Points:2,864,700 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 1:53:48 PM Ignore plastic Report Abuse I was trying to figure out what your avatar is. I came up empty. We're only going to know what's in the act by November as fed to us by campaigns. I'm guessing that's what you meant.
btc1 Champion Author Lexington Posts:18,038 Points:798,450 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 1:44:59 PM Ignore btc1 Report Abuse I must have been influence by my avatar, plas. ;)
btc1 Champion Author Lexington Posts:18,038 Points:798,450 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 1:38:53 PM Ignore btc1 Report Abuse My apologies if you interpreted my comments as "snooty". I was just trying to make a point, plastic. A lot of people do not know what this act contains. I am sure, at least most here, will know by November. [Edited by: btc1 at 6/29/2012 4:40:16 PM EST]
plastic Champion Author Virginia Posts:46,989 Points:2,864,700 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 12:45:51 PM Ignore plastic Report Abuse What, btc? Where did I ever say I prefer free rides? I think you misread my post. As far as your snooty comment, "...half of America who the right claims pays no federal tax..." I knew it was a large number and I never believed that it was half of America but I think someone somewhere actually proved that figure, to my amazement. >"Seems to be an improvement to me! Penalties = Tax, not Mandates. There is no ObamaCare tax unless you try to FREELOAD!" It would seem to be an improvement, however there is more to it than just that. There are mandates on the health insurance companies that will end up raising the rates of currently insured people. Normal algorithms dictate that a percentage of those people will drop the insurance when this happens- not by choice but by necessity. They will then have to become part of the government dole or pay the extra tax. Sure it's an improvement in theory but this will no doubt hurt middle-class Americans. There are no freeloaders. Freeloaders still get billed by the hospitals. Sure, there will be increased revenue by taxing these people or by forcing them into a plan but I seriously doubt it will be enough to offset any other increases. Still, you need to consider the other tax expenditures that are required to fund this new law. Taxes are going to spike for a reason. That reason is not "just in case."
btc1 Champion Author Lexington Posts:18,038 Points:798,450 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 12:34:02 PM Ignore btc1 Report Abuse plastic, "There are no free rides. Those, who can't afford it, get their bill paid by the government. Those who can afford it have to pay it or face collections." So, now you prefer "free rides"?!! Even the half of America who the right claims pays no federal tax because of big refunds from EITC and Child tax credit, IF THEY DO NOT ALREADY HAVE healthcare insurance will give the money back to the government out of those refunds to pay for them! Seems to be an improvement to me! Penalties = Tax, not Mandates. There is no ObamaCare tax unless you try to FREELOAD! Make up your minds righties! Do you want freeloaders or not!?>?>>! This is Healthcare Insurance. It is not like a lot of people do not already have and WILL NOT be effected by this Penalty = Tax. If you have it, NO TAX! AND employers who do provide it will receive SIX YEARS of tax benefits for providing it! [Edited by: btc1 at 6/29/2012 3:39:17 PM EST]
plastic Champion Author Virginia Posts:46,989 Points:2,864,700 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 12:26:10 PM Ignore plastic Report Abuse The bad thing is that Congress will demand a replacement for Obamacare. I really don't want to see Romneycare come into play either. It's time to roll out the conservative plan of reform. Cap the lawyers, I say.
mudtoe Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:9,722 Points:1,316,065 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 12:21:33 PM Ignore mudtoe Report Abuse Since Roberts has declared that Obamacare is a tax, any repeal attempt of Obamacare will only require 51 votes in the Senate, as tax measures cannot be filibustered. That number of republicans is easily within reach in November given the economic environment and the fact that far more democrats than republicans are up for re-election in this cycle. If Romney is elected he has an excellent chance of being able to deliver on his promise to repeal Obamacare as his first act in office. mudtoe [Edited by: mudtoe at 6/29/2012 3:25:30 PM EST]
plastic Champion Author Virginia Posts:46,989 Points:2,864,700 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 12:16:57 PM Ignore plastic Report Abuse Actually that's not true, c2b. If someone can afford health care and go to the hospital, they still get billed. There are no free rides. Those, who can't afford it, get their bill paid by the government. Those who can afford it have to pay it or face collections. Do you now understand?
c2bravo Champion Author Indiana Posts:2,242 Points:114,035 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 12:04:10 PM Ignore c2bravo Report Abuse As I understand it, It is only those who can afford health insurance and chose not to buy it are the only ones who will be penalized. Those people are the ones who go to the emergency room claiming not to be able to afford it, and then all of us end up paying for their healthcare. How is that fair?????
plastic Champion Author Virginia Posts:46,989 Points:2,864,700 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 11:57:03 AM Ignore plastic Report Abuse >"It is beyond me how people don't understand that increasing the number of insureds puts the brakes on increasing premiums." And just how will this law increase the number of insured? Many of the ones, who either choose to be uninsured or who can't afford health insurance, will most likely go with the Public HMO. That will not help insurance companies who will have to raise premiums to cover mandates. It will increase the load on the treasury though. Yup, you'll be paying more in tax. But you knew that. I just can't understand why you like that.
MiddletownMarty Champion Author Connecticut Posts:17,747 Points:272,335 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 11:46:40 AM Ignore MiddletownMarty Report Abuse "It is beyone me how people dont understand that if you increase wha teh insurance companies have to cover you cah honestly expect to not see premiums go up." It is beyond me how people don't understand that increasing the number of insureds puts the brakes on increasing premiums. [Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 6/29/2012 2:47:04 PM EST]
plastic Champion Author Virginia Posts:46,989 Points:2,864,700 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 11:25:57 AM Ignore plastic Report Abuse Worry, seriously? You think the issue is about Americans being upset about the tax for not having insurance? That was only the issue for the Supreme Court case. Wake up, kiddo. There's a big world out there.
worryfree Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:24,017 Points:1,892,190 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 11:22:54 AM Ignore worryfree Report Abuse The dooms day tax increase being trumpeted by cons is a hoax. Only those that choose not to get insurance in 2014 will pay the penalty/tax/whatever it is. That will be a small percentage of the population. Hardly "the largest tax increase in history" I am hearing about on right wing talk radio... The millions of Americans who have already been helped by the ACA and the many millions more who will begin to understand what it will do for them will appreciate the law. Let's see how much money the Kochs's spend to try and convince people otherwise...
BlackGumTree Champion Author Virginia Posts:18,439 Points:1,459,665 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 11:02:33 AM Ignore BlackGumTree Report Abuse SCOTUS may have ruled it constitutional but the ruling also makes it so toxic that it kills Democrats no matter what they do and even it they do nothing. Republicans will ride a wave of protest against it. The PPACA is the death knell for many Democrats. They have to pass a large tax in a recession against those who can least afford it to make the PPACA work. They will be itching to repeal it themselves which will also kill them. Its as Lose-Lose-Lose situation for Democrats all around. In the Spring next year the Republican lead House and the Republican Lead Senate will pass a bill to repeal it and the Republican President will sign it. And then the real celebration begins. You need to give your thinking a rest, btc1.
e_jeepin Champion Author Michigan Posts:3,876 Points:123,170 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 10:53:51 AM Ignore e_jeepin Report Abuse I personally think they should not vote to repeal because it's dead in the Senate. There is the opportunity! Just start a drum beat of: "not enough votes in the Senate to repeal" "Harry Reid won't allow a vote" "we can't do this without voter turn out in November" Besides, if they vote and it obviously passes along party lines, we will get another Academy Award winning Nancy Pelosi parade of victims down the front steps. Want to know what is wrong with Washington? Delusional Democrats in charge taking down the entire party. I say let them deal with the wrath of the voter and fall on their own swords [Edited by: e_jeepin at 6/29/2012 1:54:25 PM EST]
plastic Champion Author Virginia Posts:46,989 Points:2,864,700 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 10:48:05 AM Ignore plastic Report Abuse I believe you're right. I know it was sold to us (and thus our Representatives) as a "fee". We were lied to but we were also warned, "you have to pass it to know what's in it." Fools are we.
nstrdnvstr Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:37,025 Points:4,011,605 Joined:May 2001	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 10:38:03 AM Ignore nstrdnvstr Report Abuse Plastic, it wasn't passed as a tax, was it? Something to do with the reconciliation process?
plastic Champion Author Virginia Posts:46,989 Points:2,864,700 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 9:00:25 AM Ignore plastic Report Abuse Gvan, I don't believe that he can but Congress can start the wheels to get it repealed which it then has to go to the Senate. Only then can Romney repeal it if it comes to his desk from the House. He can't do it all on his own. But he can block it in other ways using some of Obama's current tactics (see US vs AZ).
plastic Champion Author Virginia Posts:46,989 Points:2,864,700 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 8:58:16 AM Ignore plastic Report Abuse Flyboy, Obama's defense said it's a tax. This has been the crux of the argument for a long time. The SCOTUS can't say it's a tax, they can only rule on what it presented to them. Since it was presented as a tax, it was upheld (like it or not and I agree).
gvan Champion Author Chicago Posts:21,749 Points:2,863,015 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 8:54:09 AM Ignore gvan Report Abuse I can't say I'm an expert on how the government works but how can Romney repeal the healthcare act if he is elected? Seems like an empty promise.
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:23,162 Points:1,037,445 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 8:51:08 AM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse btc the SCOTUS said its a tax. Now are you going to argue with them? It is beyone me how people dont understand that if you increase wha teh insurance companies have to cover you cah honestly expect to not see premiums go up. If you really think this is going to cut costs you are smoking some strange Obama tobacco.
plastic Champion Author Virginia Posts:46,989 Points:2,864,700 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 8:47:43 AM Ignore plastic Report Abuse Oh it's a penalty again? Maybe it needs to be brought to court if it's become a "penalty" again.
MiddletownMarty Champion Author Connecticut Posts:17,747 Points:272,335 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 8:41:49 AM Ignore MiddletownMarty Report Abuse It's the first 30 who are exempted from the penalty calculation.
plastic Champion Author Virginia Posts:46,989 Points:2,864,700 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jun 29, 2012 8:41:21 AM Ignore plastic Report Abuse >"People, the tax or penalty only kicks in IF YOU DO NOT have healthcare insurance! If you do there is no tax." Be very very clear; this is officially a TAX. >"Most middle class have health insurance, anyway, so there is no tax for them to worry about." No but they do have to worry about the major cost increases that will be passed on to them from the insurance companies. Eventually the middle class will not be able to afford their insurance and will be forced to go on the government HMO. Can't you see this? >"Now, for those that do not earn much, well, they will pay for it out of the tax refund. Their earned income refundable credit will provide that tax. But, now, they will be covered and hospital costs will go down." How in the world will hospital costs go down? The GOP plan would have hospital costs go down and would not take it away from the poor's EIC. Geeze, btc. Why are you in support of such bad ideas?