Houckster
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2012 5:59:18 AM
I understand that you referred to the public at large. That is what the term "masses" means.
I did not ask for an apology.
I do consider the term demeaning whether it is an accepted part of the vernacular or not. This is my opinion and I know you disagree and will continue to do so. It is also my opinion that no more comment by either of us is required on this subject.
[Edited by: Houckster at 6/25/2012 9:02:58 AM EST]
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2012 5:42:42 AM
I referred to the masses as the public at large, not to specific people. is it that hard to understand?
If it is not acceptable to you, don't accept it, no skin off my nose, but I offer no apology for using a perfectly acceptable term, a word that is in the vernacular, a word for which the dictionary definition is quite enough to satisfy me.
In 65 years on this earth, you are the first person to take offence at something that wasn't even directed as a personal comment.
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Houckster
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2012 5:25:12 AM
RUMBLESEAT: The term "masses" is unacceptable because it has always carried the connotation of people who can be manipulated at will, who have no dignity and who have no thought processes of their own. Do you wish to be considered with such little respect? I do not. The use of the word "masses" in the democratic societies we live in is contrary to the very core principle of democracy, namely that people are not part of masses but have worth as individuals.
There was no intention on my part to insult and I should have clarified why I considered the term unacceptable.
[Edited by: Houckster at 6/25/2012 8:26:15 AM EST]
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the1roadhog
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2012 4:29:07 AM
Need more defensive alert drivers.
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2012 4:19:11 AM
You accuse me of using "Communist terms"? That's a little insulting, and has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
I guess there is no point in debating with you any more if you are going to boil it down to that.
You could have, and should, have left it at agreeing to disagree.
Definition of the masses:
1 - the great body of the people
2 - the populace
The term has been used for ages, it is in the vernacular, and it is synonymous with "the great unwashed masses", and "the great unwashed", and variations are traceable to the French Revolution where the sans-culottes were described as the masses in the streets.
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carinthuist
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2012 9:56:32 PM
Sounds like a good idea.
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mnrick041
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2012 8:46:38 PM
Interesting. I do not like your multi color idea, it would be too confusing.
However, I do have this idea. ALL cars should have automatic lights on them that turn on whenever it is dark. I see too many people out there driving around in the dusk or even well after the sun goes down with no tail lights. They think that just because their running lights are on in the front that their tail lights must be on also. This is a hazard and if all cars had the automatic sensing lights on them this would not be a problem.
As far as brake lights I think this would be nice. You see it on emergency vehicles, when they hit the brakes there is a strobing red lights in the rear to make sure people behind them do not slam into them. Strobing or flashing brake lights would be a lot more noticeable than the solid ones.
Hope you find my reply interesting.
[Edited by: mnrick041 at 6/24/2012 11:46:44 PM EST]
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sweeteddy
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2012 7:31:52 PM
yes
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Titanic1985
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2012 7:29:40 PM
Hello GrumpyCat & Houckster. Thank you both for the information regarding LED replacements. I had another thought after reading GrumpyCat's comment, "Retrofitting an LED compatible flasher isn't quite as trivial a task as replacing an 1157." Some vehicles now share one flasher for both the turn signals and the four-way flashers as an integral part of the four-way switch. That can be a problem. I had a 2000 VW Passat with that arrangement. Replacement of the switch was a bit touchy as you had to pry it out of the dash without damaging the vinyl and it was a very expensive part. This indeed has been a great topic! Thanks GBs :-) .
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DasAuto92
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2012 7:08:17 PM
Houckster:I think you overestimate the difficulty of adjusting to the new system. It'll take about five minutes.
:
Maybe this sounds like i'm off the wall,but a thought ocurred to me,concering your reply.To really understand these light changes you recommend, i beleive it would be only fitting to have someone put these color schemes in a SIMULATOR.Then be put through the test of all driving situations.
And I'm sure most would fail within the 5 min timetable you alluted to.
Also as 1 GB stated it at what age of car would this system be implemented at.
As of this writing my cars are formatted with red running,2 bulb brake red, amber flasher/4way,white reverse.Oh and double white license lights.My rear end is still in great condition.
Change is good, no denying that,but as you stated "if it ain't broke don't fix it"
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Houckster
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2012 2:52:52 PM
At present, LED lights are not a serious option. TOO MANY people are having problems with them including fast blinking, LED burn-outs, poor socket fit and substandard brightness. It appears that we have some suppliers taking advantage of the LED reputation. When I see an established company like Sylvania offering them then I'll be willing to take another look.
[Edited by: Houckster at 6/24/2012 5:53:01 PM EST]
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GrumpyCat
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2012 1:59:49 PM
"Hello oilpan4. I was not aware when I made the comment about the 1157 bulb that there was an LED conversion. I do have a question (seems like that is my norm), does the reduced currect of the LED replacements affect the turn signals flashers in any way? Since most flashers work on current basis rather than a relay (more costly) senerio, I was just wondering."
Yes, that is a problem for some flashers but not for others. You have to try it to find out. Retrofitting an LED compatible flasher isn't quite as trivial a task as replacing an 1157.
Also some cars monitor current to the bulbs and provide burnout warning on the dash. The LED will report as failed.
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GrumpyCat
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2012 1:56:05 PM
Excellent! The more information we have the closer idiots can follow and be caught.
A far better idea would be to install permanent recording video cameras in the rear of our cars and clean the rear-ender's clock in court with the evidence.
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Houckster
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2012 1:34:38 PM
Sorry RUMBESEAT, I guess you and I will have to agree to diagree. I believe if scientific testing is ever carried out, my viewpoint will be sustained. I also disagree with your characterization of our population as the masses. Communist terms are not appropriate.
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Titanic1985
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2012 12:43:01 PM
Hi Houckster. I knew you had a great topic when I read it and I also knew it may be "controversial", but is is still a great topic. You said, "I think you overestimate the difficulty of adjusting to the new system. It'll take about five minutes."
Here is the BIG issue, implementation of a major change which deviates from the norm. You stated, "As for the car companies, they have historically not been very aggressive with new technology unless the development is driven by Washington mandates." I would further quantify that statement with changes will only be made when it is in the car maker's best interest (e.g. styling, cost reduction, etc.).
Government mandates, as you allude to, may force car manufactures to change things, but sadly many decisions are driven by lobbyists. You're right about the implementation time being beyond our lifetime, but on the flip side of that is my original statement about not thinking an idea through and exploring all issues. I still do not like the way the new headlights were ramrodded through and now cost the customers a great deal of money. Some ideas like the 5 MPH bumper back in the early 1970s somehow got translated into too much weight and decreased MPG. Now a light tap on a bumper that is often flush with the vehicle causes thousands of dollars in damage.
Your topic is great as has been your follow through. I hope I have contributed to it and not derailed it. It is a complicated subject largely because it involves so many considerations. You know, I was thinking about a subject totally off this forum which may relate. It is on the computer forum windows. The topic was written by Herbie from Canada titled "Computer Educated Idiots". It is a good topic to grab a coke and be prepared for many "I don't believe someone could be so (fill in the blank)". Take care :-) .
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Titanic1985
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2012 12:20:55 PM
Hello franz1313. You sure dumped a lot of information in one post -- all good :-). This is what I was initially indicating to Houckster when I talked about "brainstorming" and good ideas which may not be so great as seen by someone else.
In regards to a failed bulb, one has to wonder with all these neat features out there, why auto manufacturers standardize on the more desireable ones. Just yesterday, I was taking my garbage to the landfill and got behind a new pickup with amber rear turn signals. He had a left rear brake light out. I mentioned it to him and he was appreciative (Southern Hospitality) and said he didn't even realize it.
The heat and snow issue never came to my mind in regards to LED's, but I can relate to the problem. I owned a 1984 Mercury Grande Marquis in Chicago. The tail lights went across the rear of the car and they had ridges in the lenses. The snow would pile up on the lenses and I would have to stop periodically and use a snow brush to clear them. Yes, they looked nice when it wasn't snowing, but . . . I wonder if Ford ever though of that issue.
Your LED intensity issue can be resolved relatively easily via electronics, but road reflection during rain is there no matter what type of lighting is used, even headlights depending on the road surface. Once again another idea worth thinking about.
I read your other topics with interest. I don't want to hijack Houckster's Topic and, in a way am diverting, that being improvement of what we already have, but that is also the goal of Houckster. I guess great minds don't always think alike or else we would all be driving the same car, live in the same type of house, etc. I think improvement is a common goal amoung the posting GBs.
Houckster has created a great topic for discussion. It sure beat the yes/no type issues.
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Titanic1985
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2012 11:50:38 AM
Hello oilpan4. I was not aware when I made the comment about the 1157 bulb that there was an LED conversion. I do have a question (seems like that is my norm), does the reduced currect of the LED replacements affect the turn signals flashers in any way? Since most flashers work on current basis rather than a relay (more costly) senerio, I was just wondering.
Thank you for the information. I learned something new today :-) .
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2012 12:30:39 AM
"the present system works just good enough that people are satisfied that it's the best we can have."
Baloney, the present system works wonderfully. It is the people who aren't properly trained, aren't adequately tested, and have a "me first" attitude that are the problem. Creating a more complicated system will confuse the masses.
And if it isn't adopted worldwide, it will be ridiculously expensive, and visitors from foreign lands will have MORE accidents, as will visitors from here visiting anywhere else in the world.
NO MORE COLOURS!
"The logic you present could easily be used to justify having no taillights at all."
Sorry, poor argument. The fact is, there are some on the road with no tail-lights now because people are to lazy to check/replace the bulbs. I haven't hit one of them, ever, in close to 2,000,000 miles. Having more colours to burn out and be ignored won't help.
And if a new system were to be adopted, what do you propose to do with the zillions of cars on the road now? Some could be prohibitive to retro-fit, some would be impossible without major body work. You want an expensive limited-edition car reduced in valued by $50,000 because it is no longer original? Plus, in the meantime we would have a few hundred thousand accidents, probably resulting in many needless deaths, as people didn't have a clue what lights on what cars meant what.
We aren't going to see a system like this until the automobile itself becomes a totally different machine, very futuristic by today's standards, possibly driven by computers, or, to retain some semblance of actual drivers, robots or androids.
[Edited by: rumbleseat at 6/24/2012 3:32:23 AM EST]
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Houckster
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Message Posted: Jun 23, 2012 9:52:45 PM
DASAUTO writes: …driving,and too much thinking. Lets stick with red/amber/white.It's up to the car companies to get it right!My opinion.
________
I think you overestimate the difficulty of adjusting to the new system. It'll take about five minutes.
As for the car companies, they have historically not been very aggressive with new technology unless the development is driven by Washington mandates. We'll be dead and in our graves before the OEMs come up with this taillight system on their own. Sometimes I wonder if we'd even have seatbelts now if the government hadn't forced the issue.
We will probably never have this system because the present system works just good enough that people are satisfied that it's the best we can have. It'll take someone with a lot of juice in the right place to move this forward into a major testing program and I'm not holding my breath.
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DasAuto92
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Message Posted: Jun 23, 2012 7:57:48 PM
After reading some responses, i'm wondering what color you would use for running lights?The lighting in place by the manufacturers works good.The only thing i could think of after driving today was that most European vehicles have a tri colored light assembly, while most North American vehicles have 1 or 2.Most notably are pickups using a full red light assembly, with a clear for reverse.North American cars/pickups use a red light for running,braking,and flasher,white reverse,while there counterparts use red for running,braking,amber flasher, white reverse.Another note is that many manufacturers use different size light assembly units.For example a Audi rear light assembly starts on the quarter panel and on the trunk, vs a Focus which is located on the rear quarter panel only.Cadillac is the same, only red assembly. It all comes down to cosmetics i know.
Should we adopt the European way using red running/braking,amber flasher,white reverse.Thats debateable.
On highways, work zones use amber flashing.Police cars use red/blue flashing lights.And some are equipped with the Amber light on top to direct traffic when they are on a soft shoulder.
To me,the standard lighting on all road vehicles, would be a minimum size running light, 2 bulb stop lights,amber flasher/4 ways,and white reverse.
I personally don't think i could put up with a "disco" effect while driving, using the colors you want to fuse in place.Too many distractions while driving,and too much thinking.
Lets stick with red/amber/white.It's up to the car companies to get it right!My opinion.
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Houckster
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Message Posted: Jun 23, 2012 5:53:29 PM
CHARLIEC08 writes: It ain't the tail lights my friend, its the idiots driving the cars.
_____
All right, we have some idiots behind the wheel. Now, what do you think is better, the old system which requires that you really pay attention to the car ahead or a system that takes driver distraction into account and provides a much more definitive warning that the car ahead is slowing?
You can focus on the "idiots" and play the blame game or you can focus on providing an increased safety margin for everyone, even drivers who do pay attention but who are caught in negative driving conditions whether as a function of weather or intense driving conditions.
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franz1313
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Message Posted: Jun 23, 2012 2:57:43 PM
Greetings Titanic1985.
My Mazda had a light in the instrument cluster. If I recall, it was red and said brake. At first I thought there was something wrong with the brakes, but a quick glance at the manual showed it was a faulty brake light.
The Jetta on the otherhand has a much more modern approach. It tells you in great detail what bulb is out using the trip meter in the dash.
I have a couple of issues with LEDs. On some cars they are just too bright, especially on rainy nights. They create a lot of glare. That is why I was suggesting a two stage light for day and night use. My second problem comes during the winter. LEDs tend to create less heat than a standard bulb and therefore cannot keep the snow off. This can be very dangerous if other motorists cannot see your lights at all. Even the HID bulbs on my Mazda barely stay warm enough to keep the lenses clear in a snow storm. It can get a little scary driving at night not knowing when the lenses are going to freeze over and I have to pull over to brush them off.
[Edited by: franz1313 at 6/23/2012 5:58:41 PM EST]
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oilpan4
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Message Posted: Jun 23, 2012 1:49:09 PM
"1157 tail light/brake bulb like will go the way of the dinosaur".
I got 1157 LED replacements for my truck, I also put new factory style lenses on ($17 each side) and now you cant miss my tail lights.
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oilpan4
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Message Posted: Jun 23, 2012 12:48:06 PM
"It ain't the tail lights my friend, its the idiots driving the cars".
You nailed it.
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RallyeRed
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Message Posted: Jun 23, 2012 11:51:24 AM
I have been rear ended twice, while sitting at a red light by the car sitting right behind me. Both times the driver admitted to not paying attention and hitting me "accidently". Don't know if different tail lights would have helped - it's a Rallye Red Honda Element.
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CharlieC08
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Message Posted: Jun 23, 2012 10:26:04 AM
It ain't the tail lights my friend, its the idiots driving the cars.
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Houckster
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Message Posted: Jun 23, 2012 10:23:06 AM
WEPSMAN writes: I amgoing back to my original point. Drivers just need to pay attention. If you are gaining on a car, you can assume it is coasting or just driving slow. You should not need a light to tell you that. With your suggestions of different colors for coasting and going is just ridiculous. People do not need this information if they are paying attention in the first place.
_____
It does not appear you have read my posts. If you are absolutely paying attention and traffic conditions are light to moderate and speeds are relatively slow, human depth perception is sufficient. The more traffic conditions depart from optimum, the greater will be the benefit of the changes I propose.
The logic you present could easily be used to justify having no taillights at all. As TITANIC1985 has discussed, the high-mounted brake light proved to have some significant advantages in reducing rear-end collisions and only part of the proposed implementation was used.
Moreover, your argument is based on SHOULD, not the reality of what's out there on the roads. People have less concentration on the road than they ever have. If they're not fooling with some gizmo on the dash, say a CD or getting the weather on their radio, they're on the cell phone. The reality is that while people SHOULD pay absolute attention to their driving, they don't and when they don't pay full attention the time to perceive a reduction in distance between them and the car in front is substantially increased. People are not driving the way you say they should and it doesn't look as if they ever will.
Only truly scientific testing can determine if the changes I propose (and have been proposed by others) can make a significant difference but if they do, will you still oppose the changes?
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f250jbh
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Message Posted: Jun 22, 2012 10:29:20 AM
I have replaced my Outside lamps with LED`s (1986 t-bird) It is remarkable for some one not to see the signal lighting! IF you ignore my car being in front of you, Your loss good driver !~!
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Titanic1985
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Message Posted: Jun 22, 2012 9:51:39 AM
Hello WEPSMAN. As I've researched this topic and tried to contribute to it, I am realizing that any "better taillight system" may be an inprovement of what is already there (e.g. replacement of LED lights for bulbs). A bit off topic, but my new 2012 Chevrolet Sonic has over 20 dash lights in addition to a DIC (Display Information Center). I'm not sure if I'm driving a sub-compact car or flying a Boeing 747 airliner.
Human intervention is at the heart of safety. I think ideas such as self-parking cars, backup cameras, etc. will eventually make a vehicle unaffordable and virtually unrepairable.
As jorobins538 says ". . . stay alert". Good advice.
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jorobins538
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Message Posted: Jun 22, 2012 9:09:04 AM
That would make for a really nice light show - but I think the current system works well as long as the lights are working and you stay alert.
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WEPSMAN
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Message Posted: Jun 22, 2012 7:36:53 AM
I amgoing back to my original point. Drivers just need to pay attention. If you are gaining on a car, you can assume it is coasting or just driving slow. You should not need a light to tell you that. With your suggestions of different colors for coasting and going is just ridiculous. People do not need this information if they are paying attention in the first place.
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Titanic1985
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Message Posted: Jun 22, 2012 7:10:20 AM
Good morning Houckster. You said, "LEDs last practically forever." This is a true statement. As an AT&T Engineer, I worked with LEDs quite bit. I don't remember the exact time, but took over ten years to develop a blue LED after the other colors were available. Their advantage is long life and lower current draw, while their disadvantage is high replacement cost. The cost, however, may come down if more are produced and used. Oh, for clarity sake LED means Light Emitting Diode. It does not have a wire filament to break. They do fail, however, but remain serviceable for long periods of time.
Many years ago, I helped a friend study for the ICC (Interstate Commerce Commission) test to become a truck driver. At that time, the regulations stated a $25 fine for EACH burned out light on a rig. Now most 18 wheelers have LEDs on the rear of the cabs and many on the trailers. On cars, I'm seeing more and more LEDs, so maybe the 1157 tail light/brake bulb like will go the way of the dinosaur. Take care :-).
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Titanic1985
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Message Posted: Jun 22, 2012 6:55:01 AM
Good Morning franz1313. You bring up a good point, that being to make sure the lighting we do have works. On many new cars with a red brake light used as a turn signal, the flasher will flash twice the normal rate if a front or rear bulb is burned out. That sounds like a good idea (and is), but if people don't read their Owner's Manuals, they won't know what that "fast blink" means. On older vehicles the flashers don't blink at all when a burned out bulb was present. Also, I've noticed, over the years, vehicles only have a maximum of two brake lights on each side (except for the sequencing Mercury Cougar I mentioned earlier) due to current limitations, wiring guage and fusing. On those systems the flasher indicator doesn't usually identify a problem.
A bit off topic, but South Carolina, did away with annual vehicle inspections in 1994. Now a Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) can and will pull you over for a burned out light. That was part cancelling the inspection program. It is the driver, however, who should check the lighting on the vehicle on a regular basis. I know, if I lose a headlight, it drives me crazy and I fix it that day -- yes, it is a bit of paranoia, but my night vision isn't great!
Franz1313, what type of indicater was on the 86 Mazdo GT and the 05 VW Jetta? I owned an 86 Mazda B2000 Cab Plus pick-up, but it didn't have any special "indicator". Just curious :-).
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Houckster
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Message Posted: Jun 22, 2012 6:06:34 AM
A warning light for a taillight failure is a good idea however with many OEMs using LEDs now we'll probably never see that feature. LEDs last practically forever.
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franz1313
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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2012 4:25:13 PM
There was something else I thought of today. Every car should have an indicator when any of the brake lights are out. I had one on my 86 Mazda 626GT and my girlfriends 05 Jetta also has a warning, but my 07 Mazda does not.
I cant count the times I have been behind a vehicle with only the 3rd brakelight working. Very very dangerous.
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Houckster
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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2012 4:20:44 PM
We have to be very careful about the Mortimer statistic. While on the surface it may be correct, it may reflect the broad range of driving conditions. A more important statistic would be to measure the number of braking after acceleration cases DURING HIGH LEVELS of traffic. That's when it counts and we don't know enough about the 4.8% figure to know if it's really germane or not.
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Titanic1985
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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2012 4:11:58 PM
Hello PhilinTX. Thanks for your contributions to Houckster's topic. I have enjoyed this topic and learned a great deal.
You posted, "However, Mortimer (1970) conducted research showing that in only 4.8% of cases is an accelerator release followed by a brake application within 0.5 seconds. Thus the Advance Braking Light Device would be of limited practicality."
This was the reason I and Houckster "brainstormed" and came to the conclusion that a lengthy detailed study of any system would be required before being presented to the Government, as was the case in the AT&T 3rd brakelight. I never thought of the ratio of braking after acceleration occured in only 4.8% of the cases within .5 seconds. It makes sense once you read it and think about it. Thanks again for the information :-) .
[Edited by: Titanic1985 at 6/20/2012 7:13:18 PM EST]
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Houckster
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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2012 11:51:11 AM
PHILNTX: Thanks for this information. It is most interesting as is the article that TITANIC1985 supplied.
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PhilnTX
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Dallas
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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2012 11:06:44 AM
For more information, look at "Enhanced Rear Lighting and Signaling Systems", March 2002, DOT HS 809 425 NHTSA
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PhilnTX
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Dallas
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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2012 10:59:33 AM
Table 11. Rear-Lighting Systems Developed and Evaluated by Rockwell and Banasik (1968).
Lighting Configuration:
Lighting Configuration Description:
Tri-Light: A three-color system for presenting pedal information.
A red light would illuminate for braking, an amber light for no pedal
activation, and a green light for accelerator activation.
Acceleration: This is also a three-color system with slightly different meanings: red would indicate rapid deceleration, amber would indicate mild deceleration, and green would indicate acceleration.
Advanced headway and relative velocity (H-RV): This system would use colored taillights to indicate headway and relative velocity information. Green would mean ‘too far back, move up a little’; green plus amber would indicate ‘perfect following distance’; amber would indicate ‘just a little too close’; red plus amber would indicate ‘too close’; and red would mean ‘much too close.’
These lighting configurations were designed based on the principle of guided evolution. Each configuration would be introduced at a point in time after the previous system had been introduced and the public had adjusted to it. Each system uses information from the previous
system so that the public can adjust to changes in small stages before the next improvement is introduced. Another benefit to this approach is that each new system can incorporate the latest technology as it is implemented rather than having to rely on rigid specifications.
Rockwell and Banasik also evaluated information transfer with each of these systems. They investigated the general principles of what information should be presented to the following driver and how effective the following driver is at processing this information. This evaluation
did not lead to any design guidelines but, rather, to the general principles for rear-lighting
research presented below:
• It is important to use a live highway environment for testing.
• Rapid and natural understanding of the meaning of new rear-lighting systems is essential
(using cultural stereotypes, for example).
• Redundancy of coding is essential.
• The complexity of the problem means that the complex interaction of the human in the visual environmentIn the same vein of research, Olson (date unknown) evaluated the Advance Braking Light Device which senses the rate at which the accelerator is released. When the accelerator is released at a rate greater than or equal to a predetermined minimum, the device would activate
the brake lights for one second. If the driver then braked, the brake lights would stay on with the activation of the brakes. If the driver did not brake, the brake lights would turn off after the designated one-second interval. This device would allow the brake lights to be lluminated 200-300 ms sooner than with the current system.
However, Mortimer (1970) conducted research showing that in only 4.8% of cases is an accelerator release followed by a brake application
within 0.5 seconds. Thus the Advance Braking Light Device would be of limited practicality.
Another system, developed by a private citizen, would use three lighting configurations.
A green light would be illuminated when the accelerator is activated,
a yellow light would be illuminated when neither the accelerator nor the brake is activated,
and a red light would be illuminated when the brake pedal is depressed. This lighting configuration is similar to several that were developed and evaluated in the 1960s.
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kenji554
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Charlotte
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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2012 10:12:48 AM
Maybe a 3-D light system that makes the tail lights seem like its in your face when its an emergency.
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Mermaan
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Boston
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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2012 9:26:23 AM
While in college, my capstone team and I made a braking system where it would light up more LED red lights and make it brighter if there was more pressure on the pedal.
I thought that we would see it in the wild, but that has been 5 years since I graduated. I see it in BMW's, where an extra halogen light would light up if the brakes were stomped on.
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hornet17
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Vancouver
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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2012 8:42:00 AM
People just need to pay more attention to driving instead of letting things distract them.
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Titanic1985
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South Carolina
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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2012 6:47:58 AM
Hello again Houckster. I got engrossed in the link I posted and thought of something valid to your topic, that being existing lighting requirements can be changed (sometimes not for the better -- valid research & analysis must be done). I remember way back, the Mercury Cougar had a sequencing turn signal of three lights from the center to the left or right. I just saw a new vehicle with that, but I couldn't identify it. The new 2012 Dodge Dart (e.g. part Fiat design) offers for a continuous string of LEDs (Light Emitting Diodes) encircling the entire rear of the vehicle. They are being offered as an option.
I also remember when the auto manufacturers went before the US government and ask for permission to eliminate the sealed beam headlights due to vehicle styling restrictions. The were granted the change and now the plastic headlight housing, if broken, costs over $300. The old sealed beams used to cost $.88 at K-Mart (I'm showing my age). In addition the new headlight enclosures over time "cloud up" and you have to purchase a kit to rub out the lens and restore your lights to their original intensity. That whole change was not well thought out and, in the end, the consumer pays dearly for the sake of styling versus functionality.
I guess what I am saying, as you already have, if you have a strong case based on an extended research program which is fully documented (e.g. AT&T's fleet data) you may get government approval. Bear in mind though that vehicles are now considered global cars which are sold in other countries and our laws may not suit their's.
You've given a good topic and GBs have responded with some good feedback. As I read the Wickipedia article, I read many of the ideas posted here. This is great!
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Titanic1985
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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2012 6:17:40 AM
Good morning Houckster. They say great minds think alike. I read your post where you said, "Very interesting PHILNTX can you supply a link to any information about CHMSL. It might contain information about why the multiple color system didn't make it into the final implementation."
Yesterday, I had that same question and searched all over the web for the Inventor's name and what he developed. I could not find it, but did find a very interesting article which clearly defines automotive exterior lighting and each of their functions and, in some cases colors. It is a Wickipedia document, so there may be some slight errors, but it is very good. I did notice they declared the third brake light as mandatory in 1986. This may be true, but I bought a 1984 Grande Marquis and at that time all 1985 Ford products had this light. That, in fact is how I found my 1984 as it was in the middle of the 1985's. That really is a mute point in this discussion as 27 years have passed. I did find something of interest to you in the article called an "Emergency Stop Light (ESS)" which was used by Toyota, Mercedes Benz, Volvo & BMW. Pay particular attention to the first paragraph. It would be easier to post the link as many things have changed and are now called something different. An example is running lights are now called driving lights. Hope you enjoy the link:
Vehicle Lighting Information
[Edited by: Titanic1985 at 6/20/2012 9:25:28 AM EST]
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Houckster
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Atlanta
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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2012 3:43:17 AM
Yes, we need more alert drivers as has been pointed by almost everyone but a more effective taillight system benefits even the most alert driver.
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jimmy544
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Boston
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Message Posted: Jun 19, 2012 8:02:41 PM
Nah we need more alert drivers. All of the colored lights won't make a difference if the driver is looking at his smart fone and not at the road....
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sweeteddy
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Indianapolis
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Message Posted: Jun 19, 2012 6:14:01 PM
yes
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Houckster
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Atlanta
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Message Posted: Jun 19, 2012 5:02:24 PM
ECCERROR writes: I believe white is fine for reverse. White means car is (likely) heading in YOUR direction, whether it's reverse or it's the headlights of the car...
ME: Agreed
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ECCERROR writes: Blue is reserved for emergency vehicles. I don't think cops will like that.
ME: I'm not fully wedded to blue, fast-flicker red has been suggested and that is good but it's not just the color that we have to consider. The police use a revolving highly intense flashing blue light that is considerably different from what would be employed in a taillight system. Maybe another color: pink? Not a very he-man color I realize. Tan? Gray? I'm flexible but blue would seem to cut through fog and rain better.
ECCERROR writes: Green is confusing, as it could be confused with a stop light at night.
ME: I'm not so sure it would be but only testing will let us know for sure.
ECCERROR writes: Really perhaps radar in all cars to tell what each car is doing around one's car is better...
ME: Radar will probably be part of most car's systems in the coming years but that's probably going to be much more expensive than upgrading the taillight system and also many people are suspicious of more and more electronic gadgets and want to drive the car themselves.
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Very interesting PHILNTX can you supply a link to any information about CHMSL. It might contain information about why the multiple color system didn't make it into the final implementation.
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Houckster
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Atlanta
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Message Posted: Jun 19, 2012 4:50:23 PM
JES writes: No we don't. What we need is more people to pay attention to their driving.
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We need both. Please read my comments.
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